世界學術頂級的Science期刊，派人來專訪以核養綠公投的發起人之一 - 李敏教授
有連結有真相：Science | AAAS https://reurl.cc/OkxAy
標題：Meet the engineering professor who got Taiwanese voters
to support nuclear power
TAIPEI—Taiwanese voters have rejected the island’s policy to phase out
nuclear energy. In a referendum held on Saturday, 59% of voters supported
overturning legislation enacted last year that would end all use of nuclear
power by 2025.
簡單翻譯：以核養綠公投得到59%的同意票比例，打臉了蔡英文的2025非核家園政策
Taiwan’s three nuclear reactors provided 8.3% of its electricity in 2017,
according to the Ministry of Economic Affairs. The Democratic Progressive
Party (DPP), which controls both the presidency and the legislature, had
hoped to take nuclear power out of the mix by increasing the share of
renewable sources in power generation to 20% by 2025; 50% would come from
liquefied natural gas (LNG) and 30% from coal. But pro-nuclear advocates
gathered more than 290,000 valid signatures in favor of a referendum on
removing the nuclear phaseout clause from the books—enough for the
referendum to proceed.
蔡英文的2025非核家園政策是，2025年是再生能源提高到20%來取代核電
天然氣提高到50%、燃煤30%，但擁核人士拿到超過29萬份有效連署書，讓公投成行
Science spoke with Min Lee, a nuclear engineering professor at National Tsing
Hua University in Hsinchu, Taiwan, and one of the referendum’s
co-organizers. This interview has been edited for clarity and length.
我們science專訪到了清大核工的李敏教授
Q: Were you surprised by the outcome?
A: A little bit. We needed about 5 million votes to pass the referendum, and
I thought we would only pass by a small margin. But it turns out we got
almost 6 million. I’m happy because what we’re trying to do is show the
government that a nuclear-free homeland is not the consensus of society.
Q.你對這結果感到驚訝嗎？
A.一點點，贏得比我想像的還多，蔡政府說非核家園是全民共識根本是唬爛
Q: What made you decide to become politically active in support of nuclear
energy?
A: My expertise is nuclear engineering and my specialty is reactor safety. I
think I know nuclear power. When the DPP came into power in 2016, they said
all nuclear power plants would be phased out. We cannot make it without
nuclear power, so I decided maybe we should do something about it. Colleagues
and I wrote many articles to remind the government that nuclear power is
important to Taiwan. But they didn’t pay attention, so I decided to organize
a public referendum.
Q.是什麼讓你決定在政治上積極支持核能？
A.我的專長是核能安全，我知道台灣不能沒有核電，我和伙伴們寫了很多文章
但蔡英文都不聽，所以決定來用公投改變台灣。
Q: Why do you think Taiwan cannot make it without nuclear power?
A: The government says we are going to have 20% renewable energy. I don’t
think we can make it, because Taiwan is a highly populated island, and for
renewable energy you need large pieces of land. But even if we succeed, what
are you going to use for the remaining 80%? Coal is considered a highly
polluted fuel; people don’t like coal at all. That leaves only LNG. But
Taiwan is an island, so we have to rely on ships, LNG terminals, and a big
tank to store LNG. It’s not safe. If anything happened, we could easily be
left without gas and we could face the problem of power shortages. And the
price of LNG is not stable—it fluctuates a lot—so the price of electricity
is not going to be stable.
Q.為什麼你認為台灣不能沒有核電
A.再生能源則需要大片土地，台灣土地不多，2025達不到20%的。就算能達到20%好了
其他80%還是要用火力發電，人們不喜歡燃煤，但台灣是個海島，進口天然氣要用
液化天然氣，液化天然氣的缺點是占比太高會有儲存天數太少的國安危機，
另外一個缺點是價格波動太大，會造成電價波動。
Q: Hundreds of academics wrote a letter urging the public to vote “no” on
your referendum. They argued nuclear power is unsafe and there is no
long-term solution to nuclear waste. How would you respond?
A: I think nuclear power is safe, even after the Three Mile Island accident,
Chernobyl, and Fukushima. The Three Mile Island accident happened 40 years
ago [in Pennsylvania]; the nuclear industry really made a lot of changes
since then. The Chernobyl reactor [in what is now Ukraine] used a different
design than the light-water reactor designs we use in Taiwan; what happened
in Chernobyl will not happen here. As to the nuclear power plant in
Fukushima, [Japan,] it was not damaged by the earthquake, it was the tsunami.
The Tokyo Electric Power Company really did not pay enough attention to plant
safety related to the tsunami. And we don't think nuclear power plants in
Taiwan could be hit by a tsunami of the same magnitude because the height of
a tsunami is maximal if seismic faults are parallel to the coast, as they
were in Fukushima. Faults near Taiwan are instead at an angle to the coast.
Talking about nuclear waste, there is low-level and high-level waste. We
really do not have much high-level nuclear waste, we only have spent fuel,
but it is all on-site. We can have interim storage for spent fuel in a dry
cask. So, it’s not a problem either.
Q.數百名學者寫了一封信，敦促公眾對你的公投投反對票。他們認為核電不安全，核廢料
沒有長期解決方案。你會如何回應？
A.三大核災都不會發生在台灣核電廠身上，三厘島事件讓我們改進很多；車諾比的設計
跟台灣根本不一樣；福島事件主因不是地震是海嘯，但台灣地形跟日本不同，不會
碰到大海嘯。
高階核廢料其實叫做乏燃料，是可以再利用的，就算不再利用，用乾貯系統也非常安全
Q: Now that the referendum result is out, what’s next?
A: If the government doesn’t do anything, we will push for another public
referendum to request that the government commercialize the fourth nuclear
power plant. We hope it can be on the ballot during the 2020 presidential
election.
Q.現在公投結果出來了，你們下一步是?
A.如果政府不採取任何行動，我們將推動另一次公投。我們將在2020年總統大選再來一次

野雞雜誌

附隨組織

會噴個烈光波了不起嗎?

清大核工再度起飛

支持

還不是本野雞雜誌而已～

飯盒覺青:Science是什麼三流雜誌 有自由時報有名嗎

野雞雜誌

核工所那就多放點廢料吧

拉基期刊 點數有破20再來好嗎

不要亂翻啦

低能文組不懂啦

核廢輕描淡寫…

if 被 nature 屌打

很安全但沒人願意收，那不是屁話嗎

野雞雜誌

清大核工開發核融合吧

就是不懂的人在那邊恐慌 根本沒那麼可怕

咦，中國台北人應該覺得這是野雞雜誌吧～

說半天哪項技術是台灣的？

好像原始人看到火一樣 嚇到半條命都沒

Science是KMT黨刊 黨產會快查

多蓋幾座 拜託

https://reurl.cc/ye7OE science也訪談過藻礁議題

Science 稱Taiwanese!?

下次提案蓋十座核電廠 敢說要敢做啊

野雞雜誌

野雞雜誌

屁,文中說"不會碰到大海嘯",台灣處於地震帶,隨時會有海嘯

文組真可憐

支持

Taiwanese是啥 請正名中國台北

上SCI啦~~~~~

飯盒：野雞雜誌

李敏MIT PHD喔 ㄎㄎ

好像比較清楚了 公投沒有多加宣導 人民會不清楚

蓋好蓋滿。不要改我家。蓋我家跟你拼命

哪來的野雞期刊？ 滾！

嘴他專業度不足的建議搞清楚他的資歷XDDDD

推

大海嘯還是保留吧 現在什麼怪事都會發生

飯盒學者一輩子上不了的野雞期刊

野雞雜誌

敢吐槽蔡皇 什麼野雞雜誌

文組學者永遠上不了的雜誌

是KMT的擁核程度 敢不敢做 現在新北都不開放乾儲了

什麼Taiwanese 明明就Chinese Taipei

野雞雜誌

又不是地震就一定會海嘯，還要看地形

點數超高威望超高的學術期刊 還有覺青敢嘴？！

核一整建原地從蓋

KMT反核好嗎 沒看到反核食公投誰提的?擋乾儲的哪個黨?

還是有一群人執迷不悟 唉唉

給我核五 其他免談

大眾雜誌而已，也敢說嘴

日本人做事是不是很隨便啊 知道會海嘯的地形還蓋核電廠

說野雞的是沒唸過書嗎...

看一堆低能理組潮吹真好笑

說野雞的不知道是不是反串

請《Science》正名Chinese Taipei

覺青:跟9A總裁一樣.花錢買報導..噓

以下開放崩潰

野雞雜誌

讚啦 他媽再用愛發電阿

就是反串才說野雞啦

跟經濟學人一樣沒聽過的野雞雜誌

台灣不會海嘯? 讀地科的都不敢說一定不會有了讀核能工程的敢說?

樓下覺青崩潰罵野雞雜誌

台灣之光，chinese taipei之光

飯盒：核廢料放你家@？@”＆，@

野雞雜誌滾拉XDDD

推啦。覺青吃大便頌~

拉基DPP 再玩阿

飯盒只會做愛發電 結果腰動幾百下就沒力了

飯盒還以為自己是主流，甲賽啦

上百位文組教授都發不上的雜誌

左膠人渣該去死死啦 你們不是民意拉 還有臉天天遊街阿還有那些文組叫獸跟護航者 不要電去燒炭拉 別在那吃了米

公投哪裡有寫養綠?

講得像是花大錢挖好高階廢料儲存場的國家都是北七一樣

花大錢是花多少錢要講出來啊，有像綠能非核每年多花2500億嗎

說地震帶就會有海嘯的真的是無知反核真的是半桶水響叮噹

飯盒文組誤國是常態 緊要關頭每次都頂不住

推

笑死 science這種等級的雜誌 反核才不屑看

說台灣不會有海嘯的 要不要去查查基隆海嘯?

什麼鳥雜誌 永和自己創的吧

找個野雞雜誌自慰罷了

反核有些是反串吧 怎麼可能真的蠢到這樣

野雞雜誌XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

推

支持核五，用核四原址重建就好