前ESPN/GRANTLAND，現HBO的籃球作家Bill Simmons在1/27號自己的廣播節目裡訪問
TNT球評Charles Barkley。
(連結：https://goo.gl/1dhLeB)
因為內容滿有趣的，所以自告奮勇做了翻譯跟大家分享。
因為節目一小時多，所以只先節錄前十五分鐘，前十五分鐘內容剛好在討論現在NBA選秀
和墊底的情況。如果大家對其他的內容有興趣，也覺得翻的還可以的話，再來挑其他的
部分翻譯。
標題說類逐字稿是因為英文部分是邊聽邊抄寫的，請多多包涵！
(2:55開始)
Bill:
You have a special attachment to Cam because you (The school) paid him like
10 Million dollars to go to Auburn right, what was the final cheque?
你對於Cam有特別的好感因為你們付他一千萬讓他去讀 Auburn 大學對吧，最後的到底付
他多少？ 科科
Charles:
Well you know I didn't give him anything. Let me tell you this, they said
allegedly we gave him 200 thousand dollars. That might be the best money they
ever spend in the college sports. I told my financial people, if I give y'all
200 thousand dollars and y'all turn it into Cam Newton, y'all got a job for
life!
你知道其實我一毛都沒給他。我跟你說，他們是說據說我們給他 20萬。這應該是任何人
在大學運動裡能做的最好的投資。我跟我的理專們說，如果我給你們20萬然後你們能把它
變成Cam Newton，你們這一輩子都不用再找工作了！
Bill:
Right, was even money to that degree flowing around in the 1980s?
沒錯。在1980那個年代，有這麼多錢在這個系統裡流動嗎？
Charles:
Hell No! First of all I wasn't highly recruited. But I have admitted before,
I took some money from the agents. And first of all I think you should be
able to do that. You know, because I actually think we should let these
college players borrow money. I'm not talking about 300 thousand dollars. I
think my total was like, I can't remember, I probably borrowed about 30
thousand dollars total from agents.
廢話當然沒有！首先，我並不是大家都想要爭取的球員。但是我以前有說過，我跟我的
Agent借了些錢。然後我必須說我認為球員應該是被允許借錢的，你知道，因為我真的認
為我們應該讓那些大學球員借錢。當然我不是說借什麼30萬之類的。我記得我總共借了，
我記不清楚，我應該從我Agent那邊借了3萬。
Bill:
Well we can tell that from your suit at the draft. It wasn't a lot.
也對，從你選秀那天穿的西裝就可以看出來，你沒借很多。
Charles:
They don't. Listen when you're po... we have so little money we wasn't even
poor. we were po, P. O. You know it's so funny looking at going back, because
I give Carl Malone a hard time because his suit might be worse than mine, and
now you see these guys come to the draft and they all have been out of high
school for like 6 months with a 2000 dollars suit. Times have changed.
是沒借很多。聽好，當你很窮的時候，我們錢少到我們不是沒錢，是很窮！說起來現在想
起以前都覺得好笑，因為Carl Malone當初的那件西裝比我的還爛，我到現在還在酸他。
然後你看現在的這些來選秀的小孩，才剛高中畢業六個月不到，就穿著2000塊的西裝。時
代真的不同了。
Bill:
Yea and they have stylist and stuff. It was so much more fun in 80s and 90s
when nobody knew, nobody knew this stuff was gonna be on youtube. Nobody knew
what youtube was.
對啊，而且他們還有造型師有的沒的。80和90年代那個時候好玩多了，那時候沒有人知道
，沒有人知道這些東西會在youtube上出現。根本沒有人知道youtube是什麼。
Charles:
But you do notice the difference. The game is not, is changed. I’m not some
old guy hating on the NBA. I don’t like the level of basketball. I mean you
look at the NBA today. You got the Warriors, you got the Spurs. You got
Oklahoma City, you got the Cavaliers you got Toronto. You got 5 good teams in
the entire NBA. And that’s not fun for fans, I don’t think. It’s not fun
for me. Because first of all I don’t want to watch bad basketball but I don’
t want to see the fans paying all this money to go see bad teams play. I mean
players even when they’re on bad teams, they’re still making 10, 15 million
dollars. But I don’t think it’s good for fans so my biggest gripe man we
got to find a way to keep these kids in college at least two years. We
bringing guys to the NBA who don’t have any clue how to play basketball or
help a team win. And it just sucks.
但是你還是可以看出差別。比賽本身沒有改變。我不是貴古賤今的人。但我不喜歡現在籃
球的水準。我的意思是說你看看現在的NBA。有勇士，有馬刺，有OKC，有騎士，還有多倫
多。整個NBA只有五個強隊。我不認為這對觀眾來說是有趣的。至少對我來說不是。因為
首先我不想要看水準低的籃球，但我更不想看到觀眾付這麼多錢去看爛隊比賽。你想就算
是在爛隊的球員都還是賺一千，一千五百萬。我不認為這對觀眾是好的，所以，我最大的
抱怨就是我們一定要找到方法能夠讓這些大學生在大學待至少兩年。現在NBA正在吸收完
全不知道該怎麼打籃球或幫助球隊贏球的大學生。這真的很糟糕。
Bill:
Yea and it does seem like we’re trapped in this lottery system now where: A.
it rewards failure. The worst you are, the better draft pick you’re gonna
get. And we’re putting these people in these situations where you’re 19
years old, you’re Karl Anthony Towns, you’re just on a young team, you have
a shaky coaching staff, and what are you learning? I look at you, you’re a
great example. You’re one of the best 25 players ever. But you went to a
situation you’re in Philly, you’re a kid, and you have Dr. J and Moses. And
Mo Cheeks! Like nobody has that now.
沒錯，而且看起來我們都被困在現在的樂透系統裡。而這個系統最首要的就是它獎勵輸家
。越爛的隊伍能夠拿到越好的選秀權。然後我們讓這些19歲的大學生進入到這種環境，譬
如說你是Karl Anthony Towns，你被選進一個年青的隊伍，你有個鳥鳥的教練團，這樣你
能學到什麼？反過來說，你就是一個很好的例子。你是最好的25名的球員之一。但是在當
時的環境裡，你被選進費城，還很年輕，然後你跟Dr.J，Moses (Malone)，和Mo Cheeks
同隊！現在根本沒有人有這樣的環境。
Charles:
Well and that’s my biggest gripe in the NBA. You saw the Sixers just brought
in Elton Brand. I think it’d be great. You know you name all those guys,
Bobby Jones, Andrew Toney, …, these guys were like father figure. They
taught me how to save my money, they taught me how to dress. And they talk to
me about things in life. And I actually think, and the thing that bothers me,
I talk about, we talk about kids staying in school. Look at the 10 greatest
players ever. Now Kobe Bryant, Lebron, they are legendary. But in my opinion,
Michael, Oscar, Bill Russell, Kareem, Will, you know those are the top 5.
Then you got Magic and Bird and Tim Duncan. All these guys stay in college
more than 1 year. Like Kobe’s the exception, him and Lebron. And Kevin
Garnett’s in that situation. But what’s wrong with the guy staying in
school? It really didn’t affect those guys. And I knew that agents and their
family members they want them to get to the contract, and get to the second
contract as quickly as possible. But we got to find a way to help the league.
This is not good basketball right now. Thank god for the Golden State
Warriors. Because if it wasn’t for the Golden State Warriors, there really
wouldn’t be a reason to really watch a lot of basketball. I know that Spurs
got a good team, and Oklahoma City I pick them to win the whole thing. But
after that there’s nothing happening in the Western conference. Then in the
East you got Cleveland, Toronto’s playing terrific, but there’s nothing
happening after that. Maybe the bulls are solid. But the rest of the teams
are mediocre at best.
是啊所以這正是我對現在的NBA最大的抱怨。你看最近76人才找了Elton Brand。我覺得這
樣很好。你知道你說Bobby Jones，Andrew Toney，‧‧‧(當時Barkley的隊友)，這些人
就像我的父親一樣。它們教我如何存錢，教我如何打理自己。然後他們跟我分享人生經驗
。我是真的認為，哦然後有一點讓我不爽的是，我講過，我們在講叫這些大學生在學校待
久一點。就拿十個最偉大的球員來說。當然Kobe Bryant，Lebron，他們是傳奇球星。但
在我看來，Michael，Oscar，Bill Russell，Kareem，Will，這些是前五。再來是Magic
，Bird，和Tim Duncan。全部這些人都在大學待至少一年。對啦Kobe和Lebron是例外，還
有Kevin Garnett也是。但是在大學待久一點有什麼問題呢？對他們也沒差啊。我知道經
紀人和家屬們是希望球員能盡早拿到合約，然後能越快拿到第二分合約越好。但是我們必
須要想個辦法幫助聯盟。現在比賽的水準真的不高。還好有金州勇士隊。要不是有金州勇
士隊，真的沒有什麼理由看籃球了。我知道馬刺不錯，而且我還預測OKC能夠贏總冠軍。
但是除此之外西區就沒有什麼可看的東西了。然後再看到東區，有騎士，多倫多最近打得
不錯，然後就沒了。可能公牛還不錯，但是剩下的隊伍最好也是一般般而以。
Bill:
There’s an easy fix. You were talking about the agents want to rush these
guys into the league because they can get to the second contract faster. And
I don’t think people realize how important agents are in this whole thing.
They just want to get paid. Agents want commissions, that’s all they care
about. They’re not, for the most part, working for the best interest for
their clients. But there’s an easy fix right. Because for these rookie year
contracts, you come in, think like you’re in 3rd year you can start talking
about an extension in the 4th year or whatever I think they last 5 years in
total. But they can change it so that if you stay in college for 2 years,
maybe you chop a year off that rookie contract. So either way, you’re
eligible for that second year contract at the same time. And I think that’s
an easy fix that’ll work, but for whatever reason they won’t do it.
Because, like I don’t think, the kid in Duke, Brandon Ingram, who I think is
going to be very good; I don’t think he should be in the NBA next year. He’
s 6-10 and 100 pounds. He’s gonna come to the NBA next year?
其實有一個很簡單的解法。你剛剛說經紀人想要提早讓大學生進到聯盟好讓他們可以更快
拿到第二份合約。我不認為球迷們了解經紀人在這當中有多重要。他們只想賺錢啊。經紀
人只管他們拿不拿的到傭金而已。大部分的時候，他們不會為自己的客戶著想。但是有一
個很簡單的方法。這些新人約，我記得第三年的時候你可以開始談第四年的延長合約還是
哪年，我記得總共五年。他們可以把合約改成說，如果你帶大學待兩年，新人約的總數就
可以少一年。這樣你就可以跟其他人一樣同時間開始談第二份合約。我認為這是個簡單又
可行的方法，但是不曉得為什麼他們就是不願意改。因為我不覺得，像Duke大學那個球員
，Brandon Ingram，我覺得他未來會是一個很好的球員，但我不覺得他明年就該進NBA。
他身高6呎10，可是超瘦的。這樣他明年就要進NBA？
Charles:
Yea I agree with you and you look; I look at the kid at LSU, Simmons, like he
’s a good player.
是啊我完全同意，然後你看LSU的那個，Simmons，他是個好球員。
Bill:
Yea, my son!
我兒子！
Charles:
He not gonna do great in the NBA next year. And there’s that one kid in
Kentucky, who’s supposed to be the best high school player in the country
last year, and he’s struggling. I’m like, wait a minute, this kid… because
I’m still gonna do my college basketball research now getting ready for
March Madness and I’m like, Okay because the best player in the country came
from Oklahoma if he doesn’t win the player of the year it’s a shame. You
know he’s been the best player and like I said this will be an exciting
tournament. There’s like 20 teams who can actually win this thing, maybe
more. But it’s gonna be one of the most exciting tournaments ever. Because it
’s not top heavy at all. And anything can happen. So that’s what makes it
fun. But man I wanna do what’s best for the game. Like I said, everybody ‘s
making a lot of money, and you’re fix is very simple. But when you’re
dealing with greedy people, it’s never that simple.
他明年進NBA的話不會有什麼好表現的。然後不是還有Kentucky那個全國最強的高中球員
嗎，他現在打的不好耶。我就想說，等等，這小子‧‧‧因為為了準備三月瘋(March
Madness)我還是要研究一下大學籃球，然後現在全國最強的球員來自奧克拉荷馬州，所以
如果他不贏年度最佳球員的話就太丟臉了。你知道他目前真的是最強的，然後就像我說的
，今年的錦標賽會非常刺激。有大概20幾隊都有可能贏，搞不好還更多。但是這將會是有
史以來最刺激的比賽之一。因為沒有明顯的強隊，而什麼狀況都有可能發生。這才是它有
趣的原因。但是我真的想好好幫助現在的NBA。像我說的，每個人都賺很多錢，而你的方
法很簡單。但是當你和貪心的人交涉的時候，簡單的事情都會變很複雜。
Bill:
Well you know you look at Kris Dunn at Providence, who’s really good and who
’s on the run for player of the year candidate. He’s 22. And teams are
looking at him like he’s a lottery pick but also if I pick him, I lose 3
years with the guy I could have picked. I can take a 19 year old and 2 years
from now that kid will be the same age as Kris Dunn. But then flip it around
you look at somebody like you, that’s say they have the rules the way they
are, or that’s say college basketball in the 1980s worked like it did now.
There’s a chance you would have come out after your freshman year in college
and just to try to get money.
你看看Providence大學的Kris Dunn，他很厲害，也是個角逐年度最佳球員的人選之一。
他22歲。NBA球隊會認為他值得一個樂透簽，但是如果我真的選他而不選其他大一生，我
在他身上已經浪費掉三年了。我大可以選的19歲的然後兩年後他才跟Kris Dunn一樣大而
已。但是反過來說，如果以你當例子，假設當初的規則跟今天一樣，或是說1980的大學籃
球系統跟現在的一樣。你是有可能在大一後就提早進入NBA來賺錢的。
Charles:
No, no, no. I mean it’s easy for me to say no.
不，不，不會的。當然現在要我說不很容易。
Bill:
How do you know, you might have.
你怎麼這麼肯定，你有可能啊。
Charles:
Because you know you’re not good enough. I mean if you’re going to be
realistic, if you wanna get paid that’s different.
因為你自己知道自己還不夠強，如果你考慮到現實面。當然如果你想賺錢那就不一樣了。
Bill:
Well a lot of people don’t know that though. You’re more self-aware than
some of these other kids. Like that kid in Kentucky Skal Labissiere or
whatever his name is, he’s not ready and he’s gonna come out. And he’s not
self-aware enough if he comes out, I don’t think.
但是很多球員不知道啊。你比其他球員更有自知之明。像那個Kentucky的Skal
Labissiere，還是什麼的他名子有夠難念，他根本還沒準備好可是他明年就要參加選秀了
。我不認為他有足夠的自我認知。
Charles:
Well you have to start to surround yourself with enough people. Listen, I
know we can’t get myself and Michael Jordan all together, but we used to
have a rule. We’re gonna stay for 3 years, because your first year you have
success and your second year you struggle because they call it a Sophomore
Slump but it’s really not a Sophomore Slump. A Sophomore Slump I tell
people, they just know who you are now. They got tape on you. So you struggle
a little bit in your second year. So then after your second year you have
your third year to make that adjustment. You’re not gonna get a lot better
between your junior and senior year. But if you make adjustment in your
junior year because of things that happen in your sophomore year, then I
think you’re ready. I don’t think we can get three years because the way I
look at it is: okay think about this, if you’re going to college for one
year, that’s really just six months. You’re not going to get a lot better
or stronger, or stronger as a player in six months. But if we keep you in
college for two years, you’re going to get a lot better as a player and you
gon get a lot stronger physically. There’s a huge difference between six
months and two years. I mean that’s a huge difference. That’s why I’d like
to keep them in college in 2 years.
你必須要讓自己跟有能力的人在一起。聽好，我知道我沒辦法去找Michael Jordan來這裡
，但是我們以前都有一個潛規則。我們會在大學待三年，因為在你的第一年裡，你會打得
很好，然後第二年你就會碰到瓶頸，因為他們把這個叫做二年級症候群(Sophomore
Slump)，但其實這不應該叫做二年級症候群。我常常告訴人，二年級生碰到瓶頸是因為他
們開始摸清楚你的招數了。他們研究過你的比賽影片。所以你第二年會打得比較差。所以
第二年過後你有第三年可以做調整。第三年跟第四年你不會進步太多，但是如果你在第三
年對於第二年的狀況做出調整，那麼我認為你已經準備好了。但我不認為現在你能逼這些
小還待三年，因為在我看來：你想，如果你只讀一年大學，那其實只有六個月而已。這期
間你太可能變得更強，更壯，或是一個更成熟的球員。但是如果你待兩年，你有機會變成
一個更成熟的球員，並且身體會更強壯。六個月和兩年差很多。真的差很多。所以我會建
議讓大學生在大學待兩年。
Bill:
And also from an immaturity standpoint, you’re coming in when you’re 19,
and you’re coming into a bad team. Like look at, I know I love Boogie
Cousins and I know you have a tortured history with him but you just look at
the situation he’s been in Sacramento, I think he’s had 5 coaches, 4 – 5
GMs, probably 8 or 9 point guards, 2 owners, that’s not a good situation
like imagine if he had gone to whatever the 2009 equivalent of the 1999 Spurs
was. And he’s there with David Robinson and Pop and all those people, his
career would have been completely different.
另外從成熟度來說，你進到聯盟的時候才19歲，然後你被選進一個爛隊。就像是，我知道
我很愛Boogie Cousins (Demarcus Cousins)，我也知道你跟他有一些過節，但是你看他
在Sacramento碰到的情況，我記得他已經換了五個教練，四個到五個總管，差不多八個還
九個控球後衛，兩個老闆，這情況很糟啊；你想如果他在2009年的時候進到像1999馬刺那
樣的隊伍，然後他能跟David Robinson還有Popovich，還有其他人一起，他的生涯會完全
不一樣耶。
Charles:
But that’s the problem we have in the NBA now because when you draft an 18
year old kid, you’re not gonna get better. How good the Minnesota get when
they get Wiggins, and how much better they get when they get Karl Anthony
Towns? They’re not. So the cycle’s gonna keep repeating itself. They’re
gonna be in the lottery again next year. So they’re gonna bring in another
freshman out of high school to play with another couple of 20 year olds. So it
’s just, they’re never gonna go to a good team because these guys aren’t
good enough to have a team.
但這就是現在NBA的問題，因為你選進一個18歲的小孩，你的隊伍不會進步的。當
Minnesota換到Wiggins的時候，他們進步了多少？然後當他們選到Karl Anthony Towns的
時候又進步了多少？根本沒進步嘛。所以這樣的循環會不斷的重複。他們明年又會掉入樂
透區。然後他們又要選進一個大一生來跟一群20出頭的小孩打球。這樣永遠都不會變成一
個強隊因為光靠這些人本來就不足以構成一個隊伍。
Bill:
Look at poor Anthony Davis right now; he got screwed by his GM. They made
some dumb signings and dumb trades and now he’s, he grabbed the money, he
grabbed the extension, and now he’s on this team that really has no short
term future at all.
看看可憐的Anthony Davis；他被總管整慘了。他們簽了一些白爛的約，又做了一些白爛
的交易，然後他拿了錢，拿了複數年約，然後發現自己在一個短期內沒什麼希望的隊上。
Charles:
Zero short term future. I mean they’re not a playoff contender. Listen that’
s be realistic, that’s say hypothetically they make the playoff next year,
they’re not a contender. And they’re probably not, and the one thing about
being on a bad team when you got great players like Anthony Davis, he’s just
good enough to get you screwed up at the lottery. That’s why in my last 3 or
4 years in Philly, I got them into the playoffs, but then when I went back
and, because I’m not against tanking now. If we’re not gonna win, let me
get draft picks or some good players. And I think it’s unfair when I hear
the term tanking, and people make fun of the 76ers. What did the Miami Heat
do when they got Lebron? They tanked. They traded every player on their team,
the same thing the New York Knicks did, the exact same thing, when they went
after Lebron also. I just think what’s wrong or what’s in tanking to get a
big time player or tanking to get a young stud. I prefer the route to go to
Oklahoma City to get a young stud. That guy right there, if you look at his
last 10 draft picks, every one of them can flat out play.
短期內有希望的機率是零！說實在他們不是有競爭季後賽實力的隊伍。就現實點說吧，就
算是他們明年有辦法進季後賽，他們仍然不是個有奪冠實力的隊伍。而且他們應該不會，
當一個爛隊有一個像Anthony Davis這樣的球星的時候，他就剛好強到能打亂你的選秀順
位。這就是為什麼我在費城的最後三四年，我帶著他們拼進季後賽，但是當我回去，然後
我現在不是反故意墊底。如果我們贏不了，那不如給我選秀權或是一些好球員。然後我覺
得用擺爛這個詞有點不公平，而且大家還常常嘲笑七六人。當邁阿密熱火剛拿到Lebron的
時候他們幹什麼了？他們故意墊底啊。他們把隊上 所有人都交易掉了，就像是紐約尼克
也做了一樣的事，當他們想簽Lebron的時候。我只是覺得利用墊底去簽一個厲害的球星或
是去選一個年輕的淺力股沒什麼不對。我比較傾向用OKC的方式，去選一個年輕的好球員
。他們選秀的那個人，如果你看他這十年來的選秀，每一個人都是好球員。
Bill:
Except for that Josh Huestis kid. Well I think the tanking has gone back to I
think it started in 1984 with whatever the I think with Sampson or 1983 and it
’s been going on with 30 plus years. And you know the Celtics last year was
a good example, I really wanted them to try to go for a playoff spot because
I love the coach I thought it’d be good experience for the young kids, and I
wanted them to get a taste of what it’s like to be in that big stage in
round 1. That’s my team, and yet, so they try they get the playoff spot, but
if they have tanked, they have Justice Winslow sitting there at no. 10. And
that’s a guy who has the potential of multi-time all-star they would’ve had
if they had just lost a couple games down the stretch. It’s frustrating. So
we got swept by Cleveland.
除了那個Josh Huestis。我記得故意墊底這個事情從，我記得從1984就開始了，是跟
Sampson還是什麼，還是1983，然後已經有三十幾年了。然後你看去年的青賽就是個好例
子，我真的很希望他們能拼進季後賽因為我超愛他們的教練，我覺得如果能讓這些年輕球
員進季後賽對他們來說是個很好的經驗，我也希望他們能嚐嚐第一輪的滋味。他們是我支
持的隊伍，但是，他們是拼進季後賽了，但是如果他們選擇擺爛，他們搞不好可以在第十
順位選到Justice Winslow。他是有能被多次選進全明星的可能性的人，如果他們能在季
賽尾聲多輸幾場，搞不好就選到了。這真的很令人掙扎。然後我們被騎士掃地出門。
Charles:
See, I told ya I’m not against tanking. I actually agree with you totally.
Listen, if we just gon barely make the playoffs, and get swept, I’d rather
have a lottery pick. Because you never know where the ball’s gonna bounce, I
mean, you said they went down to 10, they would have been in the top 10 more
than likely.
看吧，我跟你講過，我不反對擺爛。實際上我完全同意你的說法。聽好，如果我們只摸的
到季賽賽的邊，然後被電，我寧願有樂透簽。因為球是圓的，我的意思是說，你說青賽有
可能掉到第十順位，他們要進前十順位機率應該很高。
(15:54)
小結：
基本上Simmons跟Barkley都不喜歡現在大學生只打一年就進NBA的生態，他們認為大學生
應該至少待上兩年才夠成熟，直接跳級進NBA對自己的成長沒有什麼好處。
Simmons也提出了一個簡單的解決辦法，但是對於好的新秀直接進到爛隊這樣的選秀制度
沒有提出什麼改進方法。
另外他們都不反對故意墊底，也覺得如果只是為了要進季後賽，不如擺爛換好簽。