我不太熟,所以看看wiki,找到很多疑點,
希望能指點一下你說法來源,
或者這個論述是你的獨創看法。
※ 引述《plamc (普蘭可)》之銘言:
: 我說鹽湖兄你這是搞政治正確,扯這扯不完
: 這邊是歷史群組,你要回歸歷史去看前因後果,當初為何南京條約要有領事裁判權?
: 那是因為最初開打的原因
開打的主要原因是自由貿易政策被挑戰。
英商的生命沒有被威脅,頂多是財產被威脅。
: 就是因為林則徐無緣無故就要封鎖十三行威脅所有洋人生命財產安全,才惹火義律
: (前文說過,義律本來認為鴉片走私販是大英之恥懶得理他們)
: 接下來林則徐要英走私商具結再也不走私鴉片,否則抓到就要就地正法
: 這對古中國來說是很正常,隨時要殺誰就殺誰,但聽在英國人耳中當然不能接受
: 今天要是有國家有這種離譜的做法,歐美國家有公民因此要被砍,也一定會想辦法救援
: 快轉到最後,啊仗打完了你都輸了,當然要解決這個問題
確定是"就地正法"嗎?
而且這段重點是要對方先簽下同意,而不是直接抓人吧。
就算套現代觀念,違法走私被抓到判刑很離譜?
As a consequence, Lin demanded that all foreign merchants
and Qing officials sign a new bond promising not to deal in
opium under penalty of death.
The British government opposed their signing of the bond, feeling that it
violated the principle of free trade, but some merchants who did not trade in
opium (such as Olyphant & Co.) were willing to sign against Elliot's orders.
英國政府認為違反自由貿易,要求拒絕簽。
沒有進行鴉片貿易的商人,寧願違反英國政府的命令,
表示願意簽。
: 要不你就司法改革到歐洲人覺得可接受司法公平的水準,但不可能做到那怎麼辦
: 只好先用治外法權了,這只是英國想要國民生命有基本的保障,
: 根本不是英國人耍強權心態故意要修辱滿清好嗎?
同意當時跟羞辱無關,
但可能也沒有所謂的,對司法公平的要求。
而是單純的保護/給便利。
那種優越的比較,可能是另外形成的。
Grants of extraterritoriality were regular in China. In the 1830s, when the
Qing government concluded a treaty with the Uzbek khanate of Khoqand, it
granted extraterritorial privileges to its traders. And in dealing with
foreign merchants through the centuries, the Qing government rarely attempted
to impose jurisdiction based on territorial sovereignty, instead entrusting
the punishment of foreigners to the respective authority in practically all
cases except homicide.
At the negotiations of the Treaty of Nanjing, Qing negotiators readily
extended a grant of extraterritoriality. Cassel writes "the imperial
commissioner and Manchu nobleman Qiying readily conceded extraterritorial
privileges to the British in an exchange of notes with Pottinger [the British
plenipotentiary] at the time of the conclusion of the treaty".[19] This was
in line with Qing practices at the time, where sovereignty was held by
peoples rather than imposed on lands.[20]
: 其實當時滿清一再撕毀條約,頑冥不靈,還沒有因為毀約受到什麼大懲罰
: 英國最後還好裡好氣的談,已經是非常客氣了
: 然後前面又說割讓香港島很羞辱,就跟你說不要老是要自己辱華,
: 對大清來說,當初根本也沒打仗,就御賜蠻荒偏遠不重要的澳門給葡萄牙人
: 給個香港對道光皇帝來說也是一樣的程度而已,他自己根本就不覺得有啥關係
: 不只他,整個中國當年都不覺得有啥關係,所以才會後世抨擊說怎麼都不想改革
: 啊幹根本就沒事你改啥革啊,不要自己後世辱華,然後以今非古
: 當年全中國都不覺得有關係你說是羞辱?
象徵性意義上不是沒有關係的。
沒打仗御賜,和打了以後奉上,心情就不一樣。
問題只是在於,沒有痛到能大改。
The Daoguang Emperor was infuriated that Qing territory would be given up in
a treaty that had been signed without his permission, and ordered Qishan
arrested
The Emperor was not informed the British expedition had not been defeated
and was very much intact. The imperial court continued to debate China's next
course of action for the war, as the Daoguang Emperor wanted Hong Kong retaken
: 對照一下,後來甲午割讓台灣,那就鬧出百日維新,孫文也從此想開始革命,
: 就知道那才是真的有羞辱到
: 英國拿香港也不是為了要佔據領土,只是基於前述威脅十三行事件,打都打完了
: 要確保英商生命安全,所以要求一個基本根據地
你意思是說要一個軍事根據地,方便下次"保護英商"時打仗吧。
: 香港島當時根本是廢島,貨真價實的鬼島,是英國拿去以後變成東方明珠,賺死了
: 「香港蕞爾一島耳,固中國海濱之棄地也。叢莽惡石,盜所藪,獸所窟,和議既成,乃割
: 畀英。始闢草萊,招徠民庶,數年間遂成市落。」___王韜