以下是三尺的主要觀點:
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作者 theologe (表達你我的信仰~) 看板 Christianity
標題 Re: [心得] XE要進『毀壞』的門?還是『滅亡』的門?
時間 Thu Nov 9 18:10:48 2017
3.老魚自引文:
"The idea of apoleia is not that of annihilation but that which is ruined and
is no longer usable for its intended purpose. Apoleia does not describe the
complete loss of being, but the complete loss of well-being.
[...]
The related root word apollumi is the term Jesus used to speak of those who
are thrown into hell
[...]
As Jesus makes clear elsewhere, hell is not a place or state of nothingness
or unconscious existence, as is the Hindu Nirvana. It is the place of
everlasting torment, the place of eternal death, where there will be “
weeping and gnashing of teeth” forever (see Mt 13:42, 50)."
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三尺宣稱:『這一段引文除了再次重申二字字源親近外。。。』
首先,很可惜,三尺『刻意沒看見』這整段英文的材料的第一段話:
Destruction (684) (apoleia from apo = marker of separation, away from +
olethros = ruin, death but not annihilation) describes destruction, in this
case the utter ruin or complete loss which is epitomized by eternal
punishment.
換句話說,這整段話在談到是,三尺自己列出來的:
apoleia(G684;太7:13):"not describe the complete loss of being,
but the complete loss of well-being."
這段英文的意思是:不是描寫存有的完全喪失,而是其完美狀態的完全喪失。
而三尺引用我所引用的這段話:
As Jesus makes clear elsewhere, hell is not a place or state of nothingness
or unconscious existence, as is the Hindu Nirvana. It is the place of
everlasting torment, the place of eternal death, where there will be “
weeping and gnashing of teeth” forever (see Mt 13:42, 50)."
完整的中譯是:
就如同耶穌在它處明確指出的,hell(低於)不是一個地方或某種不存在的狀態或無意
識的存在,如果印度教的Nirvana。(注:台灣的民間宗教對於hell/地獄的觀念基本上
承襲自佛教/印度教系統。)它乃是一種用於懲罰的地方,永遠死亡的地方,在那裡永遠
的『哀哭切齒』。(馬太13:42,50.
這裡,我們可以看見地方召會:1)根據這裡的『哀哭切齒』解釋千年國補考班;2)這個
地方並不意味著『存有的滅亡』。
而不是三尺自己列出來的另一個字:
apollumi(G622;約3:16):"is the term Jesus used to speak of those who
are thrown into hell...hell is not a place or state of nothingness
or unconscious existence"
這段英文的意思是:耶穌使用這個詞論點那些被丟入地獄的人。。。地獄不是一個地方,
或不存在或無意識存在的狀態。
(提醒三尺:學術最重要的是『出處』。你『不列』出處,是什麼意思?)
三尺光看這段話就打了雞血,又興奮的跳起來了!真可愛!
我們再來看看『專家證詞』!
http://www.preceptaustin.org/romans_29-16#perish apollumi
有幾段資料!
Perish (622) (apollumi from apo = away from or wholly + olethros = state of
utter ruin <> ollumi = to destroy <> root of apollyon [Re 9:11] = destroyer)
means to destroy utterly but not to caused to cease to exist.
Apollumi as it relates to men, is not the loss of being per se, but is more
the loss of well-being. It means to ruin so that the person (or thing) ruined
can no longer serve the use for which he (it) was designed. To render
useless.
The gospel promises everlasting life for the one who believes. The failure to
possess this life will result in utter ruin and eternal uselessness (but not
a cessation of existence).
首先,第二段話的解釋卻是跟差不多。但是請注意,第一段,不論是1)原文編碼,2)
字根,3)和希臘文原意都指出Perish (622) (apollumi,因為與。。分開而完全毀壞以
至於滅亡的狀態)和Destruction (684) (apoleia,因為與。。。分開而毀壞)。能把這
兩個詞『扯』成一個?不能不令人讚歎三尺的功力!
(當然,也要讚歎三尺為了攻擊地方召會,不惜和TF同流合污,一起『扯』的心態!)
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/167285-street-fighter-alpha-2-playstation-screenshot-knockout-birdie.png
再看一份資料:
John MacArthur writes that "Apollumi (destroy) refers to utter devastation.
But as the noted Greek scholar W. E. Vine explains, “The idea is not
extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being” (An Expository
Dictionary of New Testament Words [Westwood, N.J.: Revel, 1940]). The term
is often used in the New Testament to indicate eternal damnation (see, e.g.,
Mt 10:28; Lk 13:3; Jn 3:16; Ro. 2:12), which applies to unbelievers. But even
with that meaning the word does not connote extinction, as annihilationists
claim, but rather spiritual calamity that will continue forever. (MacArthur,
J: Romans 9-16. Chicago: Moody Press)
MacArthur 說的很清楚,雖然Vine認為這個字跟Destruction (684) (apoleia,因為與
。。。分開而毀壞)同意思。但是,這個字本身的意思是最終極的悲傷/毀壞(utter
devastation)。在新約中,往往被當作永遠的天譴(eternal damnation),往往
被用於『非信徒(unbeliever)』.這個意思並不是像靈魂覆滅說(annihilationists )
所謂滅絕/消滅(extinction),而是一種持續到永遠的痛苦。
×××××××××××××××××××××
如果三尺認為這兩個字一樣,那麼,三尺事實上就否定了TF所認為的,『失去的救恩
具有能被重新得回的可能性。』換句話說,TF被三尺賣了,還在興奮的幫三尺數鈔票
呢!。。。。。。真有意思!
×××××××××××××××××××××
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/167285-street-fighter-alpha-2-playstation-screenshot-knockout-birdie.png
再看一份資料:
Salvation Word Studies has the following entry on apollumi…
Jesus stated the purpose of His coming to this world in Luke 19:10: "For the S
on of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." The question for
this inquiry is, What does it mean to be "lost"? The Greek word used to
describe
this condition is apollumi (sometimes apolluo), which is a stronger form of
ollumi, and means to utterly destroy.
救恩字義研究(Salvation Word Studies)說,基督在路徑19:10論到祂來臨的目的:
(經文省略)問題是,『失去(lost)』是什麼意思?被用來描述這個條件的希臘字是
Apollumi(有時候是apolluo),比ollumi強烈,意思是最終的毀滅。
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/167285-street-fighter-alpha-2-playstation-screenshot-knockout-birdie.png
整體而言,我們可以結論到:
1- apollumi(G622;約3:16)是一個要比apollumi(G622;約3:16)更為強烈的字
2- apollumi(G622;約3:16)往往被賦予『最終』,『極致』,『永恆』的意義,
apollumi(G622;約3:16)沒有
3- apollumi(G622;約3:16)往往被認為跟『存有』有關,apollumi(G622;
約3:16)則是跟『用處』有關
4- apollumi(G622;約3:16)往往被被用在『外邦人』身上
這些特徵,可以從這兩節的背景得到證明:約3:16,不接受神兒子的,就是外邦人,
沒有得救;而馬太7明顯的,耶穌是對門徒的『內部訓詞』。
如果如同三尺一樣,把兩者等同之,豈不是把太7中進『寬門』的『信徒』當作『沒得
救的外邦人』而模糊了『聖』和『俗』的分野。而,『不分聖俗』本來就是『三尺神學』
的張力,因此,三尺在這裡強凹硬掰的一定要把『失敗的信徒』當作『沒得救的外邦人
』往永刑的焚化爐送,而斷送了他們得救的機會,不過體現了:
1)三尺『浸行為會』的三位一體救贖論,與
2)三尺『聖俗不分』
的神學張力罷了!
劈
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https://www.pcgamesn.com/sites/default/files/62832_orig.jpg
嗯,估計被打到外太空去了!
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補充:
剛看了Tf的回文。搞不清楚是他抄襲三尺呢?還是三尺抄襲他?
怎麼邏輯,論述,引用的東西幾乎一模一樣。不過就是三尺的
可以算是『加強版』。
如果是這個情況,就把這貼當作對TF的回复可也!
阿門!
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